#jedi knight spoilers

[a-master-procrastinator]

So, I have a headcanon regarding Outlander and Valkorion

Spoiler territory for pretty much the whole game (mostly Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior class stories and all expansions from Shadows of Revan).

How does Outlander (especially non Force user) defeat Valkorion in KotET? This question bothered me (and I'm sure all of you) for quite some time. And frankly, the game doesn't answer it very well. So I did some thinking, searching and theorizing, and found a solution that I will bring in my personal stories. Just thought it would be interesting for others to see as well.

Explanations offered in the game:

Valkorion's power had become weaker at some point (as noted by Arcann in chapter 8 "Taking Flight", and indicated by events on Ziost, since Theron wasn't possessed, and by Valkorion in chapter 9 "Eternal Throne", when he said that he needed Vaylin's power to destroy Outlander's mind);

Arcann and Vaylin helped defeat him;

The holocron was the instrument of Valkorion's defeat (but it's never properly explained how exactly);

The "kneel before the dragon of Zakuul" phrase worked on Valkorion because the Outlander said so.

It doesn't sound too bad, but when I tried to go into details, it didn't make much sense. "My mind, my rules" was really out of nowhere, also kinda goes against the previous experience of Outlander not being able to do anything about Valkorion before that. And Arcann and Vaylin being on your side isn't the key either because even the three of them were still losing, it only changed after the main character said the key phrase. And why the heck does it even work like that? Because they said so? Gee, should've thought about it a few chapters before, no?

Now, what I came up with doesn't really go much different from that, I just made some adjustments to make it flow better (at least for myself). I'll talk through my thoughts in chronological order, so bear with me (I tried to summarize it at the end, so scroll if you want the short version).

Vitiate learned to transfer his spirit as one of the ways to be immortal. It can happen either through a ritual, which is preferable since it's easier, doesn't weaken him, and he doesn't need time to adjust, but it does require consent from a person, or killing the previous host, which does weaken him for some time. The longer he has possessed a host, the greater the loss of power will be upon the transfer. It's not to say that he isn't dangerous, quite the opposite, but perhaps he can't do some 'impossible' things (like consume a planet or shatter a mind) just like that.

He was at his full power before the events on Belsavis and Voss, timeline wise. Remember how easily he possessed the minds of the Jedi on the strike team? Yeah, Jedi Knight broke free, but that's bc they're super strong (and the main character in their storyline).

But because of Baras Vitiate had to be released from the body on Voss by being killed, which made him slightly weaker, just enough for the Hero of Tython to kill him again on Dromund Kaas. That made him lose more power (because he possessed this body for much longer than that Voss), and Vitiate tried to find a new host and regain his power (either by Revan reviving him or consuming all life on Ziost). His attempts were not successful, so he retreated to Zakuul.

That would explain why after being 'killed' yet again on Zakuul (thus losing two of his main hosts) Valkorion wasn't powerful enough to possess the Outlander's mind (regardless of their class). He was in a pretty vulnerable position, so he came up with a plan. We'll get to it. For now, Valkorion understands that if the Outlander dies, he'll be even weaker and probably won't be able to get a new host, so he protects the Outlander while pushing them to use his power.

Every time the Outlander agrees to do so gives Valkorion more control over their body, and even if they never agree, the bond grows stronger as time passes, it's just faster when Outlander uses his power. Eventually it would be just strong enough for Valkorion to use the main character's body without their permission (like in chapter 16). But he's still not powerful enough to break their mind, so he goes to the next part of the plan.

Valkorion manipulated the main character into killing Vaylin (and Arcann, if applicable) because he needed to consume her power to destroy Outlander's mind (which is what happens in chapter 9). But he made a couple mistakes in doing so. First, he underestimated how smart Commander is, and how the bond allowed them to take his form to survive. Second, by consuming Vaylin's spirit, Valkorion gained not just her strength, but also her weakness, which is the conditioning.

But wait, didn't Vaylin free herself from it? Sort of. I saw a suggestion from another player that Vaylin didn't get rid of conditioning itself, but rather the lever that triggers it. It's possible because the process on Nathema didn't exactly according to the plan. And because of that, Valkorion also gained her conditioning after consuming her spirit.

So, what does that mean? What does it do? Well, I think that when the key phrase is said in presence of Vaylin, she temporarily loses her connection to the Force (or it becomes so weak that she can't use it), thus isn't a threat. And the same happens to Valkorion when the main character attempts to use it on him in KotET chapter 9, at least for long enough for the Outlander to kill him. This way the victory isn't dependent on one's power in the Force, and it fits a non Force sensitive Commander as well.

What about the holocron? I explain this as it only binds, commands and releases spirits, as we see with lord Dramath. It's not the key to Valkorion's destruction, but it is still important because it is used to free Vaylin's spirit from Valkorion after her death (and Arcann's, if applicable), which gives Outlander a potential powerful ally.

[Just a little addition that has very little to do with my explanation, but wanted to mention - in the throne room, when Valkorion breaks Outlander's mind, he takes over the body and attacks your companions. They hold off long enough for Commander to put their mind back, and at that moment Valky loses control, and the body is unconscious.]

So, to sum it up:

Valkorion is weaker after being killed on Voss, Dromund Kaas and Zakuul, hence why the Outlander can resist him, regardless of theirconnection to the Force;

the holocron found on Nathema can bind, command and release spirits, which allows Outlander to free Vaylin (and Arcann, if applicable) from Valkorion;

the bond formed between Valkorion and Commander allowed the latter to survive after having their mind destroyed;

Vaylin didn't completely get rid of the conditioning on Nathema because the process didn't go as it should've, it just removed the trigger;

by consuming Vaylin's spirit Valkorion gained both her strength and her weakness - her conditioning, that's why it worked on him, and it temporarily weakened his connection to the Force.

I know this isn't perfect, there are probably plot holes that I haven't noticed or poorly explained, but I like it much more. Why do I even bother with this explanation?

I just love doing mental gymnastics around KotFE-ET, and this particular part was difficult yet entertaining to figure out.

But honestly, probably most important reason is that it works for every class (so even non Force-users are fitting here) because strength in the Force is not the key. Valkorion underestimated how observant and clever Outlander is, and I think it works better for their characters.

[knamil]

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Captions in script form in the image description.

[kemendin]

The Sith Emperor is defeated. The Galactic Republic celebrates its victory. And the Hero of Tython finds himself dreading the end of the unthinkable alliance that made it all possible. Or perhaps, it doesn’t have to be the end. 

Jedi Knight x Lord Scourge (pre-relationship) Words: 3600 A/N: Finishing my replay of the Knight story with Cas, as well as perusing some of the cut conversations with Scourge, led to musings on deeper reasons for Scourge to stick around, particularly when Cas is such a contradictory example of a Jedi, and they really don’t get along all that well through most of the class story. And then musings led to actual words, because incoherent sputtering in Discord just wasn’t doing it justice. Also, fun trivia fact - the ship’s designation is a reference to Cas’ original name in WildStar.

CORELLIAN LIGHT CORVETTE, designation SEEKER, en route to CARRICK STATION

Caspian has to fight against the uncomfortable knot in his chest as he gives a tentative rap on the doorframe of the Seeker’s cargo bay, and then peers inside. It’s as stark as ever - there's rarely much cargo carried in this ship beyond a few necessary crates of supplies, and the bay’s sole occupant has never seemed inclined to fill the space with any personal effects. The upshot is that now, there’s no way for Cas to tell what might be about to happen here. Certainly nothing so obvious as an open packing crate on the floor, waiting to be filled and then taken on its way.

Scourge is already on his feet, turned towards the door, wearing heavy robes of a red so dark it borders on black. He stands expectantly, as though he’s simply been waiting for Cas to appear. It’s always been like that - the Sith has never made a secret of how easily he senses Caspian’s approach, and he’s invariably ready for him whenever the Jedi ventures to visit. 

His red eyes watch impassively as Cas slides fully into view. Cas bites the inside of his lip where he hopes the Sith won’t see, and after a moment’s dithering he steps inside.

“Have you got a minute?” he requests, trying to make it sound light, though it hardly seems loud enough to be heard over the apprehensive wump wump wump of his heart.

Scourge considers him for an instant, then gives a curt nod. “What is it, Jedi?” he asks.

Instead of answering right away, Cas moves over to a low crate nearby and gingerly sinks down onto it. It’s been nearly two weeks since he faced the Sith Emperor, but he still finds it difficult to remain on his feet for long periods, his body not yet recovered from its immense ordeal within the Dark Temple.

Perched on the edge of the crate, Cas pulls in a breath deep enough to lift his chest and settle his stomach. “I was just wondering… what your plans are, now,” he says carefully. “Now that -” He fumbles, and wets his lips. “I mean - this, you and me working together - it was all just to defeat the Emperor, right?”

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Scourge’s browstalks lift slightly, and a dry look curls his mouth. “You tell me,” he replies - an answer Cas would find infuriating, if he had room to feel it right now.

“Well… I did that. We - did that.” Cas brushes his silver hair from his face. He’s not sure if he’s being too obvious or not, putting so much emphasis on them. On this unthinkable alliance that had, somewhere along the way, transformed into a strangely profound partnership between Jedi and Sith.

“The Emperor’s dead,” he goes on. His grey eyes have been erratically roaming the room as he speaks, but now he focuses on Scourge again - as hard as that is. “You got what you wanted. Any… obligation, you made towards me - that’s over.”

He shifts atop the metal crate, pausing, half expecting Scourge to interrupt; but the Sith remains silent, and after another visceral heartbeat Cas pushes on, “So… what happens now? I mean - I’m still a Jedi, you’re still a Sith.” He forces a quick laugh, one that sounds hollowed with all the things he doesn’t want to think about. “Do we just - go back to being enemies?”

Still, Scourge doesn’t answer for several moments. His scarlet head cants, his keen gaze cutting thoughtful lines across Caspian’s uncertain form.

At length he says evenly, “There was a time, when I believed that the Jedi of my visions - that you - would not only defeat the Emperor, but also take his place. That you would claim his power and his throne, and fill the void of his destruction that all the Empire now feels. And as I once served him - so would I serve you.”

Cas feels a hard lurch in his stomach, and his hands curl unconsciously in his lap. “But you know now… that I won’t do that,” he says. It’s quick, not even a question. “I don’t want his power, and I don’t want any throne.”

“I know.” Scourge dips his head, though his eyes never leave the Jedi. “And I continue to wonder if you truly understand what you’re conceding.” His voice turns sharp, just shy of accusing. “Or the chaos to which you condemn the galaxy by doing so.”

Cas drops his eyes for a moment, wondering how he can possibly feel guilty for not seeking such power, as Scourge folds his arms and goes on, “I also know that trying to convince you otherwise would be a waste of breath. I’ve rarely met anyone so stubborn and determined to remain less than what they could be.”

Though this comment is withering - Cas winces inside, a direct hit upon his insecurities - Scourge only shrugs it away with a roll of his broad shoulders.

“I won’t try to sway you again. But if you will not take what is rightfully yours, I am left with little reason to remain here.”

Cas’ chest tightens, as do his brows. Don’t go, he wants to say. But pleading has never been an effective tactic with Scourge, who views such displays only with contempt.

“The Sith still brand me a traitor,” Scourge continues, musing aloud. “But perhaps there is yet a role for me in the Empire.” He lets out a sardonic huff of breath. “I’m sure your Council will be relieved to see me back on the other side of the galaxy, where I belong. Far from their precious Hero of Tython.”

Another seemingly offhand remark, yet it digs into Cas, scraping across the raw edges of his emotional wounds. He glances up, jutting his jaw against the snap of resentment that flurries through him.

“I don’t care what they think,” he retorts, all the more brusque for how true it is, and he sees Scourge’s eyes narrow in approval.

“Good,” he says softly. “Let them command you, Jedi, if you must - but never let them control you.”

A potent silence falls between them, as Scourge seems to await some reply, and Cas fumbles with what he should say. Get a hold of yourself, he berates himself sternly, uncomfortably aware of the Sith’s continued scrutiny. He breathes in again, then out. Straightens his shoulders, loosens the twist of his hands.

He makes his offer.

“Well. In case you haven’t totally made up your mind, I just thought I’d tell you - you’re welcome to stay. If - if you want to.”

Watching Scourge, he can’t tell if the other man is surprised by this invitation or not. He’s gotten better at reading the Sith over these months they’ve spent together; but it’s never easy to find anything on Scourge’s face, beyond the light layer of judgement that seems to constantly edge his expressions.

One dark-gloved hand snakes upward, as Scourge strokes briefly at the tendrils twitching idly on his chin. “…Do you want me to stay, Jedi?” he asks.

Again, frustratingly, Cas can discern nothing from how Scourge says it. His jaw tenses further as he throws back, “Would I have even asked you if I didn’t?”

The Sith blinks once, conceding this. But then he straightens, flicks his hand towards Cas, and asks pointedly, “...Why?”

His tone is level, but there is a new weight to it, a kind of unspoken challenge, and Cas knows instantly - this is a test. Scourge is seeking his intentions, probing for what a future together would entail, and if he does not like the answer Cas gives him - he will leave.

Cas swallows against the knot that’s moved from his chest to his throat, and stares up at Scourge. Because I feel something for you, he wants to burst out. Something deep, and frightening, and furious, and I know I shouldn’t be feeling like this about you, of all people, but I can’t help it. And if I let you go now, I know you won't come back. I’ll never get the chance to find out if someday, you might be able to feel something for me, too.

But try and say any of this, and he might as well kick Scourge out the airlock with his own boot. He can see it so clearly in his mind - the Sith’s face sharp and contemptuous, his breath thick with scorn, as he shreds Caspian’s confession with razored condemnations of sentimental fool. Have you learned nothing?

So Cas forces it all back, with the same unwieldy effort as pushing a pocket of air below the surface of a churning pool. Scourge does not, cannot, know the truth of what the other man feels; Cas is sure of it. But there are easily a dozen other reasons for him to abandon the Jedi and his crew, and very few incentives to stay, and Cas has only moments to find something of the latter that will sway Scourge’s views enough to keep him here.

He clears his throat, breaking apart the stoppage enough to speak. “Well… it’s like you said,” he points out, trying to keep his tone as calm as Scourge’s own. “The Sith want you dead. The Republic obviously doesn’t trust you, they’d be just as happy to kill you as the Sith, I expect.” He shrugs. “Where else can you go?”

“Anywhere,” replies Scourge, abrupt and immediate. “I am no longer bound by the Emperor’s command, nor by my pledge to you.” He fixes Cas with a heavy stare, one that bores into the Jedi without restraint. “Do you think the galaxy is so cleanly divided, and that I am so clumsy as to be caught between my former allies and your Republic? Do you think I need your protection, Jedi, or that of your friends, in order to survive?”

Cas flinches internally, knowing he’s misstepped. Biting his lip, he hastens to amend, “No. No, of course not.”

Scourge accepts this with a brusque nod. Though he hasn’t moved a centimetre from where he’s stood through the entire conversation, he still gives the impression of settling back, folding his arms again as he goes on:

“If you would have me remain here only under some misguided perception that I need a home, and lack a better offer than your ship -”

Cas expects him to finish the thought without hesitation; he braces himself for Scourge to declare his immediate departure, and dismiss the Jedi from his presence in the same scathing breath.

But instead the Sith trails off, and though his attention remains unrelenting, there is something expectant in the tilt of his browstalks. A prompt. An opening. And Cas seizes his chance.

“No,” he says again. “It’s not that at all.” He lifts his chin a fraction, forcing himself to meet Scourge’s gleaming gaze. It’s easy to do when he’s angry, lashing out at the unflappable Sith; much harder now, in the stillness of the Seeker’s hold, when all Cas wants to do is cut his hands over the unyielding angles of Scourge’s face until his palms are bloodied with the feel of him.

“You told me, once, that you had learned from me, as much as you had from Revan. And I said that you’d done the same for me. Because - well, you have.”

Cas shifts his weight as he lowers his gaze for a moment, pondering these uncomfortable truths he can no longer push aside.

“You’ve made me ask questions I never would have asked, otherwise. And true, I haven’t always liked the answers, but like them or not - they have opened my eyes.” He glances up again, steadier now. “And I just think - maybe we’re not done with that yet. I think there’s still more we could learn from each other, if we stay open to it.”

Scourge’s lips give the faintest quirk of curiosity; and not for the first time, Cas wonders if they feel as sharp as they look, or if there is yet some softness within that sculpted mouth. A low hum of consideration rises in the Sith’s throat.

“You continue to surprise me, Caspian,” he remarks. “And that, on its own, is no small feat.”

The Sith steps closer, moving in a way that seems almost incidental, like his approach is merely a side effect of his feet carrying him across the floor.

“I sensed your fury, when you brought down the ceiling of the Dark Temple,” he says lowly. “It was… impressively deliberate. If a trifle overdone.”

Cas angles his head back farther, continuing to hold Scourge’s gaze as he swallows. “What’s that got to do with this?” he asks, feeling his voice thicken. But Scourge can’t know why. He can’t know that as Cas stood over the fallen husk of the Sith Emperor, as he wrapped his rage around the stones bared like ancient, sharpened teeth above him and ripped them down, that the uppermost thought in the Jedi’s vengeful mind had not been of Vitiate’s terrible plans, or his own tormented captivity in the Emperor’s fortress, but a simple, vicious vow -

This is for what you did to him.

“Only that in my observation, you have been doing everything possible to distance yourself from the dark side,” answers Scourge, jolting Cas back to the present. “Not always to great success, and often to the detriment of your own purpose, as I explained to you on Corellia.  And yet in facing the Emperor, you not only embraced the dark side - you commanded it.” His voice drops, the sound like wet sand scraping across Caspian’s skin. “Deny it if you will, Jedi. But in that moment, you were a true lord of the Force.”

Cas’ jaw tenses defiantly. But Scourge is right. His actions against the Emperor had not been born of desperation, the random expulsion of his hatred for Vitiate and all he’d wrought. No - Cas had known exactly what he was doing.

And murder, however justified, was still murder.

“I’m not going to make a habit of it,” he retorts, though even now, he feels no remorse for his savage dispatch of the Emperor. “Using the dark side.”

“And yet you ask me to stay, and continue to share what I know of the galaxy, and of the Force.” There’s something almost mocking in Scourge’s tone now, in the narrowness of his eyes and the curve of his mouth. “Do you expect me to plod passively by your side and throw kernels of my experiences at you, in the hopes that a few of them will be considered? Do you see the irony, Jedi, in your request? You claim to rebuff the dark, and with the same breath you would plunge yourself into its shadow.”

Cas grits his teeth. Sometimes he wants to thrash Scourge when he gets like this, when the Sith pulls apart Cas’ every utterance with the same casual air as picking bones from a platter of meat.

Thrash him - and then devour him. Cas forces himself to unclench his jaw, and exhales deliberately.

“I’m not saying I’ll ever be like you,” he replies, as steadily as he can. “I’m never going to be Sith.”

“Mmmmm, no.” Scourge hums in accord, canting his head as he surveys the Jedi before him. “On that, we can agree.”

“But that doesn’t mean we can’t keep sharing our views with each other, our experiences.” Cas lifts his chin a little, and now there’s a hint of challenge in his own expression and voice. “You’ve been out of touch with the galaxy for a long time, Scourge - and I know I’ve been sheltered by the Jedi for most of my life. Why not change that? What was it you said? Sometimes it takes an outsider to open our eyes to new facets of the Force?”

Scourge’s gaze narrows again - but this time the thinnest pretence of a smile sharpens his mouth.

“So you can listen, even through all the Jedi blustering that fills your ears,” he remarks lightly. “Perhaps there is hope for you yet.”

Cas bites back a retort and simply looks up at Scourge, his pale eyes pushing against the other man’s assessing stare. He finds that he’s nearly holding his breath, as he waits to see if this offhand expression of approval means that Scourge has at last made up his mind.

Heartbeats pass, too many, too loud in the unbearable silence between them; and surely Scourge will hear it soon, the near-desperate plea still lodged in every pulse through Caspian’s tightening chest that says please don’t go, I need you -

“Very well, Jedi. For now, I will accept your offer to remain here, as part of your crew.”

A wave of relief sweeps through Cas, leaving him surprisingly dizzy in its wake. His lungs deflate again, and the tension of his torso dissipates, allowing his shoulders to slump.

“Great,” he says, this simple response belying the sudden brightness of his voice and the small but irrepressible smile that unfurls across his face. “That’s great, Scourge, I - I’m really glad. Thank you.”

“But,” Scourge cuts across him, “only on one condition.”

Cas’ elation jerks to a halt. His brow crunches uncertainly. “And what’s that?” he ventures.

“That you give me your word - if I decide to leave again, you will not hold me here. I will be free to go where and when I choose, with no interference from you and your crew.”

Cas frowns more deeply, puzzled by this mundane request. He hesitates - but if there is more to Scourge’s terms than there seems to be, he can’t find it, and after another moment he nods.

“Of course. I would never try to keep you here against your will, you know that.” He huffs a wry breath. “As long as you’re alright with taking the word of a Jedi, that is.”

“Your word will suffice,” answers Scourge calmly.

By the time Cas realises what Scourge is implying, the Sith has already moved on. “But what of the Jedi Council?” Scourge presses, his gaze glinting sardonically. “How will your Masters respond to my continued appearances at your side? Not with any favour, I think.”

Cas’ reply is a low snort, as he brushes the back of his hand across his lips. “Oh, I’m sure they’ll be furious,” he admits drily. “But come on, you’ve seen how well I get along with them. Especially now. I’ll go where they send me, but this is my ship. I decide who’s welcome here, and who’s not.” He straightens where he sits, sets his jaw, feeling oddly compelled to show his resolve, not just speak it.

“The Jedi Council are my leaders - not my masters. I’m still going to do things my way.”

Scourge dips his chin, though his eyes remain on Caspian. “I am counting on it,” he says softly. The way he speaks makes it sound almost like a threat. Almost.

Unsure of how to respond to this, Cas only clears his throat, sliding from the crate and onto his feet. “Right, well,” he says after an awkward moment or two. “I’ll try not to be too much of a disappointment, in that respect.” Half-joking, he adds, “I’m sure there will be plenty more opportunities for you to watch me butt heads with the Council, I know you always find that entertaining. Maybe it’ll make up for me not actually joining you on the dark side.”

He turns, and is already heading for the door when Scourge offers a parting remark that stops him in his tracks.

“Perhaps. But even Revan was Sith for a time, and you are more like them than you realise.”

Cas stiffens, hesitates. “How so?” he asks carefully, turning his head so that he can regard Scourge from over his shoulder.

“There was always something of the darkness in Revan, even when they returned to the light. True, you lack Revan’s raw power, their intense connection to the Force - but you have their tenacity. Their defiance. Their need to understand, and to forge their own path in finding it.”

Staring back at Scourge, Cas feels an enticing shiver ghost through him. It’s become an uncomfortably familiar sensation over these last few months, coaxed into being by the intensity of the Sith’s presence; the moments when Scourge’s level tone turns almost lyrical, and Cas can hear the memory of passion still imprinted on his words.

He swallows. “Is that a good thing?” he asks, wondering if he should be feeling flattered now, or frightened.

But Scourge merely makes an idle gesture with one hand.

“You must decide that for yourself. You know what happened to them, where their path led.”

Cas bites down apprehensively on his tongue. “Yeah. You turned on them. Nearly killed them,” he recalls, a little harshly. “Are you saying that if you stay, you’ll do the same to me?”

Scourge’s expression is once again impassive, impossible to read. “I have many enemies, Jedi,” he replies matter-of-factly, and then pauses. “But… for the moment, I don’t count you among them. You have nothing to fear. As long as I remain here, I will not raise my hand against you, or your crew.”

“Well.” Cas exhales a long breath he hadn’t realised he was holding, and gives a quick toss of his head to cover it. “You’ve just given me more incentive to make sure you stick around, haven’t you?” And he dares a tight, lopsided smile.

“Yes,” murmurs Scourge thoughtfully, his eyes narrowing at Cas.

The Sith straightens, adjusts his robes, and pivots away from the Jedi, moving towards the rear of the cargo bay in a clear expression of dismissal, but his last words linger suggestively between them:

“It would seem… that I have.”

[theshijlegacy]

Grayne: "I'm officially making Rusk your problem."

Rusk: "I am honored to be your problem, Master Jedi."

[parseolegacy]

[I'm writing this at 3:30 am so I apologise for the fact that this is probably unorganised as balls] On the topic of the Old Republic Jedi I've noticed a sharp shift in how the Jedi are written in the newer expansions of SWTOR- especially when it comes to who they take on as members. Spoilers for 7.5, Jedi Consular & Jedi Knight origin & under the cut. ALSO LONG, PROBABLY

In the most recent update and in the 4th Galactic season there are moments/stories about how the Jedi won't take a certain person in- Arn comments that the Jedi probably won't take a group of newly force-sensitive people you rescued in 7.5 (you don't even get the opportunity to have him reach out, he's THAT sure that asking isn't worth it) and Amity (The season 4 companion from last year) had a storyline about him being rejected from the Jedi for being 'too old'. But BASE SWTOR has 4 notable npcs I can name off the top of my head that start training as adults without their age causing this massive friction- one of these was incredibly aggressive and a danger to the Jedi order and two of these were adult Sith! (I am also excluding Nadia because she is a special case, but she's still also someone who fully started training from scratch as an adult. So the number technically goes up to five. Jaric Kaedan, a member of the Jedi council, also started training at 12. Which, while not an adult, is still significantly older than younglings commonly seen in the prequel-era.) Padawan Fia is an NPC on Tython that gives you a quest and talks about how she was brought in recently and she's seemingly around 18-19.~ Nalen Raloch is a Twi'lek village fighter from the Consular prologue who is accepted to train as a Jedi if you choose to recommend him- he is your enemy in the prologue and attempts to destroy the Jedi Order. The next two, which come up in the Jedi knight story, is the Sith Lord Praven and a former Dark Council member turned Padawan you meet on Quesh. (I unfortunately forgot his name. Whoops.) Two fully adult Sith who have trained to use their anger in a way that is completely counter to Jedi teachings are still allowed to train as Jedi when they show that they want to. When Jedi tend to reject people from the order it's because for whatever reason they believe it's impossible or far too difficult for that person to control their attachments and emotions well enough to live like a Jedi. When a DARK COUNCIL MEMBER, someone who has lived for years in a deeply corrupt society, as a leader no less, is allowed to join after a fight with a Jedi Council member, I struggle to see how the group of people in 7.5 who were very briefly held captive and suddenly awakened the force are such a sudden risk to the Jedi Order in the Old Republic. Arn is incredibly dismissive of you in the aforementioned 7.5 scene, where he scoffs and says 'unless they've already started Jedi training, they'll be turned away.' Since when? (As far as I can find any rough timeline after research) When during the roughly 17 years since the start of the game did this shift occur, exactly? I find it incredibly hard to believe that this just happened, especially after the war with Zakuul while the Jedi order is building itself back up- it would be a completely nonsensical decision after losing so many of their numbers. This is simply not the time where a force-order, formerly pretty liberal with who gets to join (especially if they have even a single Jedi vouching for them,) cuts off loads of potential new members when many of the current adult Jedi were trained & reached their master positions in a time when letting people in was the norm. This is especially jarring when playing a Consular- who asks Arn with this hesitant "I know that certain allowances would need to be made," when your first significant decision can very well be to have Nalen receive Jedi training, and the decision goes over extremely smoothly. Rather than this being a conscious worldbuilding choice, due to how sudden and unexplained it is in-world, it feels like writers are losing familiarity with the previous material- at least to me. Or worse, that a prevalent fandom attitude has started to worm its way into the writing of the game over its own pre-established worldbuilding.

Been seeing comment on the Acolyte. People acting the whole:

“She was a child!”

“You brought her here.”

Was a good gotcha moment against the Jedi or “he makes a good point.” One dude even said “can’t argue with that.”

Watch me.

Killing Jecki

First of all, Sol did not bring Jecki to fight Mae’s Master. He brought her as a part of an ongoing investigation that she’s been a part of and they were going to try to warn a fellow Jedi and/or make an arrest on Mae. He DID NOT KNOW that the would encounter essentially a Sith.

Qimir didn’t have to kill her. Jedi have knocked out enemies and he could’ve as well.

“It was self defense” OH??? He attacked the Jedi first. He was out to KILL. HE made that choice. Y’all don’t excuse Anakin slaughtering younglings so why this guy? Because he’s a Sith? (We’ll get into that and “Force monopoly” in a minute).

“It’s commentary on how Jedi put their Padawans in danger!”

What does Sol and other Jedi do when suddenly facing a greater danger expected with their Padawans? What’s the order? Run. MAYBE another order like “get these people out” “or finish this original plan and leave.” But still, it’s to get their Padawans to safety. They will hold off the enemy to give their students safety. They even go as far as sacrificing themselves to do so.

“He’s a Sith what did you expect?”

Briefly touching this. It’s not because of my expectations of Sith, I know they do horrid things. It’s why y’all are excusing the action, especially just to spite the Jedi?

“Jedi were not letting anyone outside their Order to use the Force!”

I see this often and I’m worried this is what the show going for, so I’m gonna debunk this right now.

It’s not disallowing others using the Force. There are so many other cultures that use the Force and the Jedi usually leave them alone. (Nightsisters, for example). It when people are using the Force to create disharmony, to cause HARM to others and themselves that they intervene.

The Sith are literally a culture of Force Users who do horrendous things for their own gain. They will torture and kill just because. Who wiped out the Nightsisters in the Clone Wars? Oh yeah, SITH. (They didn’t even do it themselves. They sent out the asthmatic cyborg.)

The Coven? The Jedi didn’t say “stop using the Force, you’re not allowed to have it.” They came because, at the time I’m writing this, (half an hour before episode 6 is released), they fled intentionally away from Republic space to do something that warranted the Jedi to investigate. Also it was the JEDI asking the kids what they wanted. It was, at the least, most of the Coven telling the children how evil the Jedi are and they are not allowed to join them.

This characterization isn’t just an Acolyte problem or even solely fandom. It’s been an issue even with Old Republic writings (and this is coming from someone who LOVES the Old Republic era).

[cherryevathings]

[salome-c]

He goes around collecting titles.

[izmagicallulu]

Her 🥺

[hotstreak2k3]

“I wanna be Jedi, like my father before me.”

[parseolegacy]

Day seven of @jdiknight's SWTOR-tober prompt list! The day seven prompt is The Force: So I wanted to draw Thada and Zilei- which are the characters who's story is most centered around or impacted by the Force itself in my legacy. Also nobody ask me why I decided to use watercolours (the traditional medium I'm the worst at/least experienced with) when I'm already a day late for the challenge. Had to step in with some paint markers anyway to get proper values in at least on Thada's side, but Zilei's not quite the right shade 😭 I really need to learn how to layer and blend watercolours properly HE IS TOO PALE BUT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO FIX IT- I already went into detail about Zilei's relationship to the light side of the Force in Day 2- so I'll mostly talk a little bit about Thada's relationship to the Force. Swtor spoilers up to Echoes of Oblivion under the cut.

As a Chiss (who generally lose their force-sensitivity,) one of her two main goals throughout her story (or at least what she sees as a crucial building block to her main goal), is to do whatever she can to retain her fleeting connection to the Force which include, but are not limited to, finding a place in a Dathomirian coven under a slightly dubious master before reaching the Sith. It gets more complicated after Ziost where she technically becomes part of the Force as a victim of Vitiate; however all of her essence is not consumed and she continues to exist as a Force ghost (possibly in the world between worlds,) learning more about the Force, the past, present and future, as well as changing the course of and intervening in hopeless situations- before being brought back in Echoes of Oblivion. (Stole your body reformation ritual, sucker! Eat dirt Tenebrae-) In being reformed she mostly takes energy/life force from a single, willing person, my consular Akk'rai, and the two become one in the Force through the process- forming a Force Dyad. Probably could've drawn them for this too but the Force itself isn't as present of a story element in Akk'rai's case, so I felt Zilei and Thada were more relevant to the prompt.

Previous days: Day 1 + Introduction post Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6

[a-master-procrastinator]

This thought just randomly hit me (spoiler-ish? for Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior)

I don't think that Sith Warrior ever sees the Emperor in this body in person until the events of 6.2 (or they do, I don't remember, so correct me if needed). Do you think the reason for that is the fact that Scourge, the previous Emperor's Wrath, was dangerously close to him and ended up betraying him? So Vitiate decides to only communicate with the new Wrath through the Hand (except that one time on Voss, but he was in a Mystic's body, plus killing was the job).

[kanansdume]

In all of the discussions about Ahsoka being called a "former Jedi Knight" in the opening crawl, I am remembering that Felony recently did that interview where he claimed that Luke Skywalker was not TECHNICALLY a Knight because no one ever officially knighted him, and uh.

Hm. The hypocrisy is just... so pungent.

[consularmain]

she's an icon she's a legend and she is the moment

[theshijlegacy]

Dammit, Rusk...

[pentacass]

aelirra x | vestra x

[kemendin]

- I’ve sacrificed too much to be met with silence. - Silence is all you’re going to get.